Khaled discusses Michael Jackson, James Brown, and Raï Music

K = Khaled
S = James G. Spady

S: At what point did you hear James Brown and Michael Jackson?

K: Michael Jackson is more recent.  What I listened to - after all, I'm not young - what I listened to was the Jackson 5.  But see, raï music had a problem just like Rock and Roll did in the United States.  And, it's because of James Brown that I was able to help usher in a certain openness in Algerian society, because he allowed me to open up and liberate this Raï music.  Raï was looked down upon at the time.  And, there was a moment when James Brown came out with "Sex Machine" where people were saying that Raï was vulgar and all that, but at the same time they would be listening to James Brown on TV and singing his stuff in the streets.  I said, 'Wait a minute, you're listening to that - which is vulgar - and you're talking about vulgar language in Raï?,' you know what I'm sayin.  James Brown has allowed me – because of him – I won them over.  But, I don't sing about vulgar stuff, like sex and all that.  For them, singing about love was considered a little… The battle over this music came about because we were trying to break taboos.

S: Were there occasions when you were performing in Algeria and they thought it was haram to do Raï?

K: No. Rai was not considered… the problem we had was that it was not shown on TV, it was not being played on the radio.  It's like the history of Rock and Roll.  Because they were saying it was a music of debauchery, a music of alcohol and drugs and all that, and that's why they were saying, 'We can't listen to this music together as a family.'  Because it talks about love, people were uptight.  I didn't talk about sex, just love.  Just the word 'love' in our country was taboo, and it was hard to break free from that, especially in Raï.  And also, Raï is danced to like James Brown, like Elvis Presley, and so they were complaining about men dancing with their hips.  They said, 'That's for women, not men.'  Now, thank God, we live in a different world, some minds have opened up.

S: How difficult was it to get your first album made, Kutche?  Martin Meissonnier was, I guess, the person?

K: Yes, yes, yes.  Martin Meissonnier was the first person that came to Oran, he saw me sing at weddings.  And, Martin Meissonnier is the first gentleman to have the idea to fight for this music.  When he came to Algeria he said to me, 'It's really a beautiful music.  I want to do something to get you out of Algeria so that you can get greater exposure.'  And I did my first professional album with Martin Meissonnier, named Kutche.

S: Weren't there some Algerian businessmen in France who you were associated with as well?  There were Algerian businesspeople in Paris who were your managers and whatever, yeah?

K: No, no, no.  When I first left for France, I didn't know… we didn't really know about this whole business of having a manager.  When I went to France is when I began entering the professional world of music, began learning about the business, about having a manager, how to record in a studio over the period of a year to put together an album.  In Algeria, we would do a cassette in 24 hours.  It's true!  I learned all that other stuff when I left Algeria.  And when I came to France, it was to make moves, progress, because record labels didn't believe in this music.  So, I spent almost 4 years performing in cabarets and at festivals all over Europe, where I was able to make a name for myself.  And then the record labels came.  I first got signed in 1990.

S: So, it was about 1991 with Universal, the first one?

K: I first got signed in 1991 with Universal, which was Polygram at the time.

S: Now, how important was the Raï festival in France?  It was not in Paris, it was outside of Paris, right?  In 1985, I guess, '86.

K: Yeah, the first festival was in 1986.  I did it with Colonel Senoussi.  It was at the same time I had done the album Kutche that I did this first concert, which was a cultural exchange between Algeria and France.  And it was in Bobigny.  And it was because of Martin Meissonier who came up with this scheme where I could leave Algeria and work in France.  And Colonel Senoussi, he also believed in me and the music and that things ought to change a little in Algerian society.  He was the one was managing me at the time and he wanted to do something because he was more of a musician than a military guy.  He said, 'I want to do something for young Algerians.'  He said, 'I want to show these young people and the government that this music can go far and that we ought to believe in it.'

S: That first audience you had, though, at Bobigny, was mainly immigrant North African – the Maghrebi community – and a lot reporters from France, right?

K: Yeah, because it was done with the top Raï artists.  It was me, it was Sahraoui, Fadela, Mami and Cheb Hamid.  The five of did the Raï festival.

S: So, there was Cheb Mami and who else?

K: Cheb Mami, Cheb Sahraoui, Fadela, and Hamid.

S: So, they were the big five?

K: Yeah, yeah.  And that's really a great memory.  And what's beautiful is that when Raï was liberated in Algeria, and when I came to France, I was able to open French minds to our music and our people.  It was because of the music that I did this.  I was the number one artist, meaning I was on French TV and was in French houses… Because with the French – it's like here in the United States – there's the problem of racism.  You couldn't ever see any Arabs or Algerians on French TV.  And I'm proud to say that I opened the minds of the French.

S: Yeah, I was gonna say that.  To what extent did accepting your performance… accepting you was accepting Algerians in general?

K: Right now we're entering a superb world with music.  We can move forward, we can change, maybe, maybe we can change the world with culture.  It's like now, see Zidane – who is known worldwide, who is Algerian – he opened up things in Europe and France.  Now, they don't look at us as the Algerian the thief, the window-breaker or the drug dealer. The Algerian, or the Maghrebian in general, can move forward, he can be accepted by society.

S: Were you consciously attempting to… Was this a conscious effort on your behalf to fight against racism in France?

K: You throw ice cubes at them.  You kill them with a smile.  I think… You know where I learned that? I learned that, because I watch a lot of TV, it's like here in America there are a lot of Blacks who make white people laugh [Laughing].  It's true.  I think the best weapon is to make your enemy smile, to make him laugh.

S: How did the Raï festivals in Algeria – I guess they were in Oran at first weren't they?  The first festivals were in Algiers, I guess, weren't they?

K: Oran, it was in Oran.  The first festival that was put together in Oran was in 1985.  And then it was every year.

S: How important is it to use colloquial Arabic, or everyday speech to sing your songs?  And when do use French in your songs, and when do you use Arabic?  What's the criteria for choosing to use what language?

K: Because, look – when we were colonized… Listen, I respect those who came before me.   When we were colonized, what was beautiful – those are lessons I learned – when we were colonized, the poets of my country wrote in French and Arabic, they were not selfish.  Even though they were colonized, still they shared, so that the French – who were the colonizers – could understand the poem.  That's why now I like to play ping-pong with the languages.  Why?  Because I have an audience that comes to hear me and likes me, so I'm not going to be selfish.  I should also sing in their language.

S: I guess the question I was asking was a different one.  My question was… My friends in Egypt say that the Arabic they hear him singing the songs in they don't always understand it.  So, I'm asking if there's a particular colloquial Arabic that he's using to communicate with the masses of people in Algeria?

K: We have our own language.  It's our dialect.  And literary Arabic is because of religion.  And yet, the Egyptians liked me, so I did some duos and I also sang in literary Arabic, which I leaned in school.  I've also done some songs in literary Arabic so that they can understand.  It's like the day where I wanted to sing… I invited Noah to sing "Imagine" with me.  I wrote the lyrics in literary Arabic because it's understood by the entire Muslim world.  I didn't write in Algerian Arabic, but in literary Arabic.

S: So, to what extent do you personally choose to express these songs in a more colloquial Arabic?

K: Algerian Arabic all the time because with Raï... Actually, it's the Orani Arabic, not even the Algiers dialect.  Raï, when it's sung in the Algiers dialect, it ruins the charm of it.  It's more of an Orani thing, with the Orani dialect.  It's like artists who came before me, like [Bob] Marley who sometimes sang in Jamaican patois, and from time to time he sung in broken English.  And, also like Elvis who sang the Aloha thing from Hawaii; I don't know, sometimes they have American English and the Hawaiian.  We artists are always creative with languages.

S: Final two questions.  One has to do with the collaboration with Hakim, the song "El Salaam Aleikum"?

K: Yeah, yeah.

S: How did that come about?

K: 'El Salaam Aleikum' mixed with James Brown, yeah.  [begins singing James Brown] 'So gooood.  Uh-huh, I got you!' [Laughter]

S: How did that song come about?

K: That came about because there were the events of September 11th and we wanted to come to the United States to do a tour.  We wanted to sing, we wanted to say 'As salaam Alaikum,' 'Peace, peace, peace to everyone.  We're for peace. We're not here to make war.'  So, we chose "So Good" by James Brown.  We mixed it, did a little medley with literary Arabic, me and Hakim.  And we also wanted to come the United States for a tour, for the Egyptians, because I'm used to coming here.  So, it was more for me, the Egyptians, and the Iranians – for these three countries – that have problems.  So, we wanted to come to show a positive image of our countries, not negative images.  And also to show others that we – the artists – we risk our lives to spread peace.  But also, that song didn't work because James Brown wasn't with it.  He didn't want that mix.

S: He didn't want that mix at all?

K: No.  I love him.  I didn't hear it from his mouth, the poor guy.  I adore him.  Even he did say 'No,' I will always love him.  Sometimes we listen to people, sometimes there are jealous people who speak nonsense.

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