Interview with Grand Wizard Rasheen

R = Grand Wizard Rasheen
S = James G. Spady

S: What years did you actually begin DJing?

R: I started DJing in 1978. I was dancing around the same time. Everything basically happening at the same time.

S: So from 1973-78, you were dancing.

R: Yeah, I was Soul Stepping.

S: Who were the best Soul Steppers you knew?

R: Besides me?

S: Yeah.

R: Well, Franchise was the best Soul Steppers. They couldn't mess with us.

S: What made Franchise the best dancers on the Hip Hop scene in Philly?

R: I mean, you had the Flamingos. You had a lot of dancers in Philly. Yeah, there were a bunch of dancers in Philly at that time and crews would battle sometimes.  But after we battled, the best ones ended up with us. They couldn't beat us. They ended up joining us.

S:  Who came over to join y'all?

R: The Flamingos, Dip and Chip from North Philly and South Philly. All the ones we battled and beat ended up with us.

S: How about Rennie and them from the Scanner Boys?

R: Yeah, definitely Rennie. As a matter of fact, we still doing shows with Rennie and them.  Yeah, still Stepping like back in the day. And Rennie, definitely shouts out to him for keeping Philly up.

S:  You don't remember Shalimar?

R: Yeah, I remember Shalimar. Yeah, Shalimar and Rennie were more into Popping and Locking.

S: Were they GQing or Locking?

R: Nah, they were locking. We were doing the GQing. GQing and Stepping, that's the same thing. They were doing locking, popping and more breakdancing. Yeah, they were more into that. Don't get me wrong, they could Step when they wanted to Step. But they mostly did that.

S: Did you call yourselves B-Boys at the time?

R: Nah, we were not B-Boys. We were Steppers!  It was more like Stepping or GQing. And it was only in Philly. Philly had the only Steppers around. Everybody came from New York to watch.

S: When dancers came down from New York to see Philly Hip Hop dancers, where were they coming to see it?

R: They were coming to Hotel Philadelphia, The Wynn Ballroom, just to see the Steppers. We weren't Breakdancing. At the time we were Stepping. They would come and see us, then they would go back and practice. They would practice our floor action.  Our floor  action is their "Breakdancing."

S: Come on!

R:  That's what they call Breakdancing. Our floor action is their Breakdancing.

S: In Stepping and GQing the final move would be the floor moves.

R: Yeah and that is what they took.

S: Are you serious, man?

R: A lot of people don't know that. I've been around a while. I battled New York MCs, DJs, Dancers, all of them.  I know where they got it from: us.

S: So they weren't Stepping in New York like that?

R: Nah.

S: Who were the Old Heads in Philly that you saw doing that?

R: What? Stepping? The only one doing it besides me Southwest was Bobby Dance. Bobby Dance was stepping.

S: He was in Southwest too, wasn't he?

R: Yeah, he was from around us.  I lived on Malcolm.  He lived on Whitby, right there on the next block. As a matter of fact, everybody lived in the same neighborhood. Look, Cash Money… Everybody lived in the same community.

S:  Where was Cash?

R: Cash lived on the next block, alright? I lived on Malcolm at 55th. Cash lived on 57th Street between Whitby and Thomas. All of us lived within two blocks: me, Cash Money and Bobby Dance. Everybody. The Dancers. The Rappers. The DJs.  Everybody!

S: So it wasn't set off in Wynnfield as some people say?

R: With Will? Will started with me. Will Smith started dancing and rapping with me. I taught him how to rap.

S: Come on, man!

R: Ask Will. Will came to my radio station. First, I taught Cash Money how to cut. Cash was with us before Will came. He used to come over to my house riding his bike. I taught him how to cut. We dancing. We cutting. Then Will wanted to get with the group.  I'm like, "You gotta Rap because we already got dancers."

S: Y'all already had enough dancers.

R: We had billions of dancers. The Hypnotic Crew. I think that was Will's first crew. The Hypnotic Three or something like that. That was his first crew. It was Will, my boy Jamie and this other guy. I don't know if it was Reuben or not.  They was our young boys.  We taught them how to rap, dance, whatever. Basically, that was it.  That's how we rolled. Then, his first album, the first record that they made called "Just One of Those Days" is my record that I made called, "Just Not Your Day."  Will asked me if they could use it. I had released my song under my own label called "Franchise Live From The Basement."  Know what I mean?  And it had me and my boy Ronnie Ron from Channel 7. With the four turntables, that hat, and that suit that I made.

S:  You made that suit, too?  Franchise always had their own style. No doubt.

R: Yeah, man.

S: So Will asked you could he sample it?

R: Nah. I gave him the same song. Jeff just changed that beat up. The original was a song about bad breaks and it was called "Just Not Your Day."  Will said, "Rasheen, I heard it and I wanted to use it. I'm coming out with an album." I was in the park with my boy Ronnie Ron and I said, "Alright, you can use that."  Around about two weeks later he came out with their first album, "Parents Just Don't Understand."  It was like the third record after that and then a couple of other records that we taught in the routine that they did off of that.

S: So, you met Jeff before you met Will?

R: I always knew Jeff. He used to be with the crew called… I forgot their name. I can't think of it right now.  They had a rapper, a DJ.  But I'm going to tell you, Jeff wasn't cutting at that time

S: Come on, Rasheen!

R: He wasn't cutting at that time. He wasn't cutting then. Let me tell you what happened on the real.  I'm going to tell you what happened. After I taught Cash how to cut, Cash used to go over Jeff's house right after I finished teaching him and show off.

S: What?

R: Ask Cash. That's what happened. I bet nobody don't know that but me and Cash.

S: So you taught Cash at your house and Cash went to Jeff's house and taught him that technique?

R: Cash showed Jeff and after that you see Jeff scratching.

S: What other DJs were scratching in Philly at the time?

R:  I was rapping and mixing at the same time. Dancing and Mixing.

S: Not dancing and mixing!

R: (Laughs) I was a Dancer/DJ.

S: No problem doing them equally as well?

R: Nahhh!  Coordinated. I used to do it.  I made lot of cuts up that a lot of people gave names to like "Transformer" and all that.

S: So the Transformer was….

R: It was my cut that I called "The Vibrator."

S: How did the style change?  I know the name changed, but how did the style change?

R: I mean the way that you do it, you could do it three different ways.  Most people do it one way.  They do it the way that Cash do it. They break it up like a transformer. Real slow.

S: When you introduced the module to Cash, how did you show it?

R: Well, when I first showed it to him, it wasn't the Transformer. It was just Vibrating. What it is is that I showed Cash just the basics of tricks. Then from the basics of how to do the tricks, he invented his own rhythm. After he got his own rhythm and style, then he started making stuff on his own. Once he learned the basics, he was on. And that is basically all that I showed him.

S: Who were some of the other good DJs in Philly at the time but never got the credit they deserved, never reached the global audiences like Cash and Jeff?

R:  Grandmaster Nell out of South Philly.

S: How was Nell's style different?

R: Nell and Jeff were basically kinda the same.

S: Was Kosmic Kev different from Jeff and Nell?  Nell had the Punk Funk Nation, didn't he?

R: Yeah, but the way that he cut was similar.  I mean, Nell could do the tricks like me, a little bit. Kev and them really weren't into the tricks. They just be cutting. They did they scratch but they weren't into all of this [Rasheen demonstrates his 'cutting body tricks'].  That was a little different for them. But Nell did all that!

S: How about B-Force?

R: B-Force. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember B-Force. Dave and them. We used to do shows with Dave and them.

S: Were they doing it around the same time as you?

R: Yeah. As a matter of fact, SuperBad and B-Force used to do shows together because what happened is one of our boys named Steve was B-Force Dave's cousin. So every time B-Force had something, we were on it.

S: Where were y'all doing the big jams? In the Bottom?

R: Yep, all over The Bottom. Wherever they gave shows, we were down there.

S: Is that where you first met Bahamadia?

R: Oh Yeah.  Nah, we met Bahamadia.. She was at the Mayfair dancing.

S: Could Baha dance like that?

R: Could she?  She was a Stepper!!!

S; What crew was she with?

R: I was with Franchise. I don't know what crew she was with. But she could Step!  She was stepping at the Mayfair. She was one of those girls who be dancing and all of a sudden they'd do a flip on you like that.

S: Who were some of the other girls who were Steppers?

R: We had a girl with  our crew named Cheryl. She was Stepping with us and all that. But the only one that I remember from back in the day was Bahamadia.

S: You remember her as a Stepper, though.

R:  That's how I remember her. She was Stepping. She wasn't   rapping then.

S: So, where did you first see Baha?

R: At the Mayfair, 59th and Market Streets.

S: What was the first paying gig you got as a DJ?

R: That actually paid me?  My radio station. 'Cause I was giving parties every week. Every week we would have a party at the Back Door, 58th and Baltimore Avenue. Well, almost at Baltimore. Between Baltimore and Hartranft. It was called The Backdoor. And I used to give birthday parties and other parties there and at the Skating Rink.

S: Which Skating Rink?

R:  Elmwood Great Skating.

S: What about the Hip Hop spot that used to be between 52nd and 53rd on Baltimore Avenue, right near where Monk's Pharmacy was located?

R: Oh Yeah. You talking about The Cozy Nook and them. Bobby Dance used to throw jawns there.  Jazzy Jeff and Grandmaster Ant used to be up in there on that DJ forum. And he used to set his turntables on fire and all of that. Matter of fact, I'm telling you the best… West People---whether DJs, Dancers, MCs or whatever.. came out of Southwest.

S: So Southwest was strong in Hip Hop like that?

R: Everything! Everything!

S: There was a lot of street dancing going on  prior to the emergence of Soul Stepping and GQing and the Hip  Hop Dance Movement. People in Philly were  having house parties. How did that work? Did they hire DJs to do them?

R: Yeah, they hired us. We just carried equipment in our little push carts.

S: what kind of equipment did you have at the time?

R:  Ah Man. I had a Black BSR. Plastic. I got them. They were the first turntables that  I had.

S: Where did you get them from?

R: I don't even remember. I know they were Black BCRs and they ejected everything straight on. Truthfully. I don't even remember where I got them from. I just ended up with two turntables. And the first time I got on , it was on!

S: What kind of mixer did you have?

R: NuMARK. Gemini. You know I  was the first one to turn tables to the side, right?

S: Nah, you were the first one to do it?

R: You didn't know that? That's why everybody's turning the table to the side. That was my style.

S: Why did you start doing that?

R: What happened is this. In my room, where I used to teach Cash Money, the dresser where I put my turntables at.. the way that it was the turntables wouldn't fit right when I put them the regular way. So I ended up turning them sideways. And I left them that way, start mixing that way and learned how to mix faster. And I was the only one doing it at the time. Everybody used to talk about me and all that. I didn't care because they couldn't beat me. But when they seen me mixing  on it, they were like, "Oh Man." Then , once Cash started doing it and doing it in shows; everybody picked up on it.

S: Many of the things you were doing when you taught Cash Money were replicated and represented around the world by him as he won DJ competitions, one after the other.  As the brother who taught Cash, how do you feel seeing him carry it all over the world?

R: I feel good, man. Real good that I could be a part of somebody else's happiness.

S: But did you ever expect the young brother riding over to your house on his bike after football practice would become the world champion Hip Hop DJ?

R: No, I didn't. I didn't expect that none of this would go this far, truthfully.

S: When Hip Hop came about, did you think it would last this long.

R: Not really. I wasn't even looking trying to give it a time limit. I was just doing it. I was just heavy into it. If I would've went twenty years, I'd still be doing it. If it went fifty years, I'd be doing it.  I'm still here!

S: you began with Congas and Bongos, did you see any Conga drummers around at that time? Did you see Baba Crowder, Kenyatta or any of them?

R: Nah. I just was beating. I don't know . Cause I was beating on cars, all of that. I had that rhythm. I always had rhythm. So I just began recording myself on my reel to reel.

S: So you were documenting your career even back then, huh?  But you didn't think that it would last?

R: I'm glad it's still happening.People still recognize and everything.

S: Rasheen, do you feel that you have gotten the credit that you deserve in Hip Hop History?

R:  Nah, I don't think so because they don't know.  Do you know what I mean?  Like I said. Same thing about Stepping. They don't  know that Breakdancing came from Stepping. Nobody ain't going to say that. They ain't going to never say that! And that's a Philly thing. Philly should be proud that we were the only ones doing that.

S: So you are saying that Breakdancing grew out of the floor movement of Soul Stepping. Why did Phily Soul Steppers just not just do the top moves or just the bottom floor action?

R: Nah, it was altogether.  We were doing the Top and then we broke it down to the floor. That's how it went.

S:  So you weren't studying videos or film of people in New York doing It or nothing like that?

P: Matter of fact if you went back through some of the old shows like "Dancing on Air', you will see it . As a matter of fact, we were on a lot of the old shows.  Captain-------. All of them kid shows. Dancing on Air.  If you can pull some of the old shows you will see what Philly was doing. All those kids shows.  Like "Dancing on Air", that was produced by my manager,  Mike Nise. [Rasheen is referring to the Philly/ Camden pioneer dance television show featuring Hip Hop Dance in the City of Philadelphia. This television dance show ran from 1981 to 1987 and is not to be confused with an earlier NBC show that had a short run in 1947] As a matter of fact record was with Mike  Nise called " No More Roxanne."  That was before  Franchise Live Creations. I got with Mike Nise who produced the dance show.  Breakdancing came. With did Stepping and had the Breakdancers with us. We did a show at the Civic Center with Lady B that we gave. Lady B, Force MD. It was a battle between New York and Philly--- Breakdancing. The New York City Breakers and all of them were here.

S: So they came down?

R:  Yeah, they were all there.

S: Was the Rock Steady Crew there, too?

R: They might have been. All I know  is that there were a lot of dancers from New York there.

S: Who represented the Philly Hip Hop Dancers at the battle?

R: Franchise.  Rennie and them were with us. The Mechanical Crew, Scanner Boys. See when we battled  New York everybody from Philly was together.

S: And what happened at that battle?

R: We killed them!

S: What did the judges say?

R: We killed them. That's all they could say. You know where breakdancers messed up… not messed up, but they ran out of moves.

S: You mean those New York B-Boys ran out of moves?  What, y'all had reserved moves?

R: See, what it is, once you hit the floor, that's it. Once you hit the floor, what else are you going to do?

S: You stand up and take a bow. What was y'all doing? Still moving?

R: Yeah, we were spinning on the floor, dancing on the chairs, all of that.

S: Were y'all moving acrobatically, too?

R: Yeah, all that!

S: Were Rennie and them doing the Freeze, Mime and all of that at the time?

R: Yeah. And what do you call that?  Poplocking like they were doing in California. That was getting hot then.

S: So were you watching them locking on Soul Train?

R: Nah. You know what I was watching? I was watching Ginger Rodgers and Fred Astaire.

S: Going up the stairs, right.

R: I don't know what they were watching. Our group was watching Tap Dancers and stuff like that.

S: The Nicholas Brothers, the Berry Brothers, the Davis Brothers (Sammy Davis and his brothers), and Pearl Bailey's brother, the Hines Brothers (Maurice and Gregory), and of course, Bill Bailey who was the first to do the Moonwalk back in 1955 right up on Ridge Avenue in North Philly.  Yeah, that's what everybody in Philly was watching.

R: Yeah, that's the type of stuff that we were watching. That's where we got our stuff from.

S: But y'all weren't copying them directly.

R: Nah, just certain steps. We would see them do a step and be like, "Oh, we can do something like that." We would make up our own steps.

S: On the DJ side, where were you buying your vinyl, them breakbeats?

R: Where was I buying my vinyl?

S: Was there a record pool that you could use when you started DJing?

R: Nah, there weren't no record pools then. For the beats and stuff like that, we would go to the thrift stores, warehouses, old warehouses where they had 45's. There were a lot of them around here. I never really bought a record from a record store. Not really.

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