Excerpt from Interview with Sonia_Sanchez

SS = Sonia Sanchez
Q = H. Samy Alim

Q:  Let me ask you in general, what do you see as the similarities between the Black Arts Movement and what we're calling the Hip Hop Movement now, today?

SS:  Well, you know I really don't call it similarities.  What I do is I say the Hip Hop Movement came out of the Black Arts Movement.  And it was a natural progression, just as in the way we really came out of the Harlem Renaissance period, you know.  The Depression and the War, and then, here we came!  The Civil Rights Movement.  And then there was a lull again.  And then the country took everything that it could away from these young men and women in school.  But you know the most important thing about us is that we are so inventive, my brotha.  We invent stuff.  I mean, the first time I heard it [hip hop], I said to my children - and I have to give praise to them, really.  Because I heard it, you know, and I said, 'What is that music?!'  And they told me it was a turntable.  And I thought, 'Oh my goodness!'  I said, 'They take away the instruments, and we make our own music.'  I mean, that is amazing…

Q:  And that was your first time hearing hip hop?  That was your reaction?

SS:  It was a long time ago, right.  That was a loooong time ago.  See, when I heard it from my children, it was like Chuck D and it was like the brothers coming out of the Bronx.  And that was some amazing stuff, you know.  I mean, it was like…

Q:  Melle Mel and those guys.
SS:  Yeah, you heard that, and you said, 'Woooooh!'  And then I said, out loud, 'They gon get in trouble!'  [Laughter]  Because that's what we did.  That's what we did.

Q:  What do you mean 'get in trouble'?
SS:  Well, we got in trouble because we told the truth.  And I knew they were going to get in trouble.  Once you tell the truth about this country, about what's going on, you get in trouble.  So, the first thing I said is, 'They're going to get in trouble because they're telling the truth.'  And especially Chuck D, you know…

Q:  That's funny that you mention Chuck D because I interviewed him out in California…

SS:  Oh, good.

Q:  And he mentioned you also, as one of the poets that he would always hear.

SS:  Oh, wonderful, wonderful.  Yes, I mean, and that's what I'm saying.  We are an extension of each other.  Or we are a continuation of each other.  We continue the tradition and we bring an innovation to it each time.

Q:  How does language play a role in this?
SS:  I had a long talk on language the other night.  I'll try to get that to you.  But the great thing about language, to me, is that it changes, and it's always dangerous.

Q:  What do you mean?

SS:  In the hands of people who understand language.  People always say that poetry can be nice or it can be the kind of thing that people like to hear.  But it also can talk about change.  And when I heard initially with the hip hop artists, when I saw the brothas dancing doing all that, spinning on their dere airs, on their heads, on their elbows, on their knees, etc… I said, 'Go on!  Resist!'  Because that’s what it's about, you see.

Q:  Now, you just brought to my mind that day in Philadelphia on 13th and Chestnut last summer when you read that poem.  How did you feel entering that cipher?  I remember watching you come up…
SS:  Well, it was not an alien circle.  It was like, as I said, I belong there.  Just as we open up our circle to the young brothas and sistas.  Spady can tell you that when I read, I bring the young people with me.  When I taught at Temple, those young brothas and sistas came in.  And I didn't mess with what they were saying.  What I messed with was to make sure that they could say it better than they were saying it, you know what I mean?  Like, I told them you cannot write the stuff without having a rhyming dictionary, you know.  A rhyming dictionary. And it was so interesting, some of the brothas would say to me, 'But isn't that cheating?'

Q:  [Laughter]
SS:  Isn't that amazing?  I said, 'No, no, no, it helps.'  When I'm rhyming, I live, I sleep with my rhyming dictionary, you know.  So, that's the thing that you do.

Q:  What do you recall specifically about that day when you read that Tupac poem?
SS:  Well, I heard everyone before I got up in that circle.  And, initially, I stood and watched it.  And I watched not only the energy, but I watched the respect that people had for each other.  And then I watched the young brothas and sistas, you know, rapping.  And this sistas coming up saying, 'It's my turn now!  Let me go ahead and do this,' whatever.  And it reminded me a great deal of when we also got up on the stages.  I was one of the first poets who got up on the stage with a lot of men.  And you had to hold your own.  You could not go up and go [making a weak attempt]… You had to hold your own.  And so when I see those young sistas holding their own, you know, I smile.  Because I think that we have showed them how to hold your own, you know what I'm saying, in the midst of the idea that - as some poet said - 'Poetry is really masculine, it's a masculine form.'  And I said, 'It might be that my brotha, but you know, you sure got a whoooole lot of sistas out there hangin in there with you!'

Q:  Was there any sort of corollary to the street activity that you witnessed that day?
SS:  Oh, yeah, because, you know, we used to go out a lot in California.  We used to go out with Ed Bullins and Baraka and Marvin X and Sarah Fabio.  We used to go out and do our poetry and our plays in the streets of Oakland.

Q:  In Oakland?  That's right up the street…
SS:  In Oakland.  In Oakland.  And, you know, we'd go out and we'd beat the drum, whatever, and bring people outside.  And they'd bring their little chairs out…

Q:  And they would come?

SS:  Oh, they would come!

Q:  Do you remember what streets?

SS:  Oh, no I don't remember... In that Black House, we were replicating what happened in the Black Arts Movement at 131st Street in Harlem, at the Brownstones in Harlem.  And we started doing the same thing.  Ed and Baraka and I, we read poetry.  And Marvin.  And we served food.  We did like little short skits and whatever.  Had people lined up aaaaallll the way around the corner just to get in.  It was amazing, amazing.

Q:  I wanted to ask you about your experiences with Mos Def.

SS:  That's a beautiful brother.  That's a beautiful, beautiful brother.  I'm very proud of Brother Talib and Mos Def.  I'm very proud of all of the young brothas and sistas who are very, what I call, very righteous and who understand the role of the poet.

Q:  What do you see as the role of the poet?

SS:  Well, the role of the poet is to come and tell the truth.  And the role of the poet is to learn a craft, and be willing to extend that craft beyond, what I say, easy, ordinary things.

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